Curse

-Lotus- · Nov 28, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If I am playing with h/h - they are all my bitches.

This is a slightly valid point. but the monk still doesnt have the time/energy to waste on players hurting themselves.

Edited by Celestial Beaver: Please keep hostile comments out of this discussion.

upier · Nov 28, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

This is a slightly valid point. but the monk still doesn't have the time/energy to waste on players hurting themselves.

Every guy has a role.
Just as I could say that I don't want to use SY! because it doesn't benefit me, or just like the necro could stop saccing himself or foul feasting because that does next to nothing for him.
What it does though is it makes the job easier for the team. Now, a self heal would do the same thing - but we need to look at the quality of the skill used. The same thing happens with something like MMs running Heal Area.
The reason why you don't bother with something like that is because, while it does reduce the pressure, you could be wasting that slot on a better skill and have the guy, who has access to a superior skill that does the same thing that your skill choice would, just do his thing. And in return - do something for him.
That's why I'd rather run Aegis on the MM (instead of the mentioned Heal Area) and I'd rather focus on killing things and condition removal (in this case) because that will provide much greater help for the monk then a bad self-heal. While the monk WILL need to focus on you more, things will die faster thus reducing the time the monk has to stay focused. At all.

Racthoh · Nov 29, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Really I just put it in there as a means of getting a little more energy from Masochism to spam more. Blood, Channeling, and Soul Reaping don't exactly give any decent options.

Servant of Kali · Nov 30, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Did I understood this correctly? If I'm not using overpowered PvE faction skill, this team build is but okayish?

-Lotus- · Nov 30, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Did I understood this correctly? If I'm not using overpowered PvE faction skill, this team build is but okayish?

compared to builds that are using overpowered pve skills? yeah

the PvE meta has changed since PvE skills were introduced. as a general rule, teams using these skills will out-perform teams without. you cant compare builds with PvE skills, to build without, fairly at least.

Daesu · Dec 23, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I decided to take away OOP in tougher HM areas and just have DF. This would bring down my damage but I get more heals in return and I can keep blood at 5. The D/N is alot stronger now and I got more healing from her.

I came up with something like this for a more defensive version:

[build prof=D/N blo=5 win=10 earthp=10 mys=10][Dark Fury][Mystic Healing][Pious Restoration][Mystic Regeneration][Imbue Health][Signet of Pious Light][Pious Renewal][Vow of Piety][/build]

Anwyn · Feb 19, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

What do you guys do for Morgan in the 4 man setup since AB nerf?

MasterSasori · Mar 03, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

These questions I also posted on the Paragon Campfire so some of the questions overlap. I wasn't sure where did it belong.

First off, [song of purification] is great for removing condition. But really, what conditions other than blind is really an issue for Paraway? As long as SY is up and you receive semi-decent healing, conditions really aren't too much of a problem. Wouldn't [song of restoration] just be better in general?

If conditions are really an issue, I propose an alternative build:

N/Rt

Restoration 12
Soul Reaping 10+1+1
Blood Magic 8+1

[weapon of remedy][dark fury][order of pain][mend body and soul][spirit light][ghostmirror light][life][signet of lost souls]

Removes conditions fairly well, provides good healing. I put GML instead of PwK because the 20% enchant mod will make DF and OoP 7 sec instead of 5.

I also don't see how [hexbreaker aria] will really help with hexes for the Paras. I assumed that whole reason for such heavy hex removal was for stuff like Faintheartedness and Soothing Memories.

Also, I don't like Mending Refrain too much. [Finale of Restoration] looks much more promising. [Zealous Anthem] looks really good as well.

Invincible · Mar 04, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

First off, [song of purification] is great for removing condition. But really, what conditions other than blind is really an issue for Paraway? As long as SY is up and you receive semi-decent healing, conditions really aren't too much of a problem. Wouldn't [song of restoration] just be better in general?

I use it most of the time, although its a random heal, it helps. Especially on the order. i only use SoP in condition heavy places.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If conditions are really an issue, I propose an alternative build:

N/Rt

Restoration 12
Soul Reaping 10+1+1
Blood Magic 8+1

[weapon of remedy][dark fury][order of pain][mend body and soul][spirit light][ghostmirror light][life][signet of lost souls]

I've used the same build but i found this guy dying more often then the D/N.

as for the D/N i use a slightly modified build then rac's.

[Order derv;OgSkQoq56xqj3dSYIuvhX2L4t8C]

i have an extra minor earth prayers rune so i reach the +3 regeneration.
I found that she puts a lot less pressure one the healers, she keeps [Mystic Regeneration] on almost all the time.
If you compare this with the amount she uses [Dwayna's Touch], it is worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Removes conditions fairly well, provides good healing. I put GML instead of PwK because the 20% enchant mod will make DF and OoP 7 sec instead of 5.

That would be 6 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I also don't see how [hexbreaker aria] will really help with hexes for the Paras. I assumed that whole reason for such heavy hex removal was for stuff like Faintheartedness and Soothing Memories.

Also, I don't like Mending Refrain too much. [Finale of Restoration] looks much more promising. [Zealous Anthem] looks really good as well.

i also dont use [mending refrain] but i do take [Signet of Synergy] sometimes. I know most ppl dont like this skill, but it helps.

housecalls · Apr 29, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Ok. Given i dont know Para's very well, skill updates and 20 odd pages of this thread i have no idea what the 3 hero build is anymore.
Has the OP been updated as time goes?

Super Igor · May 01, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

this should be unstickied, outdated.

xanarot · May 05, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Last edit, 5-may.... 2008.

So i was wondering the same, is this setup (OP post) still viable or just keep the sabway and other 3 necro setups?

Omgopolis · May 05, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I still use it in some areas where corpses aren't available for minions. It hasn't really been nerfed at all recently, at least there are no nerfs that I can think of. It's especially nice in hex heavy areas if you take two copies of empathic removal on the heroes, and being able to kill single targets fast without having to apply a hex and condition like discord requires is nice.

I still use discord for most stuff though anyway, but paras are nice too.

AznAndy · May 27, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Racthoh, question about the warrior build u posted up here, i havnt tested it out yet, but is it possible to keep SY! up with FGJ because after that FGJ has ended the next 25 seconds you don't have double adrenaline.. (but maybe i should just test it out first b4 i ask this :P)

Bloody Dominator · Jun 15, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Maybe this is better for the derv Lyssa build:

D/W:

Scythe Mastery: 12+1+1
Mysticism: 12+1

[Radiant Scythe][Victorious Sweep][Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][For Great Justice][Save Yourselfs][Avatar of Lyssa][Eternal Aura]

[Radiant scythe] for making most use of extra energy provided by Lyssa.
Since u have [Heart Of Fury] u maybe could leave out [For Great Justice] and take another attack skill, since ull be attacking faster ull be gaining adrenalline faster to.

Just an idea i came up with nothing big, but i think better then the build that is posted there now. could also be that someone alrdy suggested this, i didnt wanna read thro all the 24 pages

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 16, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by AznAndy

Racthoh, question about the warrior build u posted up here, i havnt tested it out yet, but is it possible to keep SY! up with FGJ because after that FGJ has ended the next 25 seconds you don't have double adrenaline.. (but maybe i should just test it out first b4 i ask this :P)

With FGJ up, you can go DS -> SY -> DS -> SY -> DS -> SY -> DS, etc

With FGJ down, you need to use BH and SS after DSlash (wait until SS recharges before you DSlash so it gets 5 adr aswell).

It's doable, though you'll just get less DPS from DSlash spamming.

beagle warrior · Jul 07, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

is there any way to fit SoH onto one of the paras? i would try myself but im not very good with making/changing builds.

Paul Dawg · Jul 21, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I'm have to wonder about the Command guy. What's the point if the only Command skill is anthem of envy--which isn't so great anyway? (When I use the command para, I have him call "go for the eyes" instead of anthem of envy.) So why not combine the strongest points of the motigon and the command para with a bar like this?

8+1 spear mastery, 11+1 leadership, 11+1+1 motivation (or something like that--a total of 12 or 14 leadership is nice so that you get the extra level of max energy for shouts and chants)

aggressive refrain
chorus of restoration
finale of restoration
blazing finale
"they're on fire!"
song of purification
hexbreaker aria
signet of return/signet of synergy

You could find a spot for aria of zeal too, though I don't usually see that it's really needed.

Anyway, that frees up an entire hero slot for someone else, and all you're forgoing are the spear skills. Frankly, I don't think the spear skills are all that great except for cruel spear and stunning strike, and you could easily use one of those instead of song of purification if you have another way of removing conditions on another hero (such as foul feast).

Mr Pink57 · Aug 11, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

I'm have to wonder about the Command guy. What's the point if the only Command skill is anthem of envy--which isn't so great anyway? (When I use the command para, I have him call "go for the eyes" instead of anthem of envy.) So why not combine the strongest points of the motigon and the command para with a bar like this?

8+1 spear mastery, 11+1 leadership, 11+1+1 motivation (or something like that--a total of 12 or 14 leadership is nice so that you get the extra level of max energy for shouts and chants)

aggressive refrain
chorus of restoration
finale of restoration
blazing finale
"they're on fire!"
song of purification
hexbreaker aria
signet of return/signet of synergy

You could find a spot for aria of zeal too, though I don't usually see that it's really needed.

Anyway, that frees up an entire hero slot for someone else, and all you're forgoing are the spear skills. Frankly, I don't think the spear skills are all that great except for cruel spear and stunning strike, and you could easily use one of those instead of song of purification if you have another way of removing conditions on another hero (such as foul feast).

If you are removing all spear skills then what is the point of the orders derv? You've just turned a great damage paragon into the worst paragon build I have seen. Also the command paragon is a Stunning Strike para which as you said is a great attack (and it is).

The beauty of a paragon was and always will be is great damage plus support.

I still do not know why people hang on to the "They're On Fire" and Blazing Finale setup? The only time "They're On Fire" would be maybe worth it would be with a bunch of SF eles.

pink

Paul Dawg · Aug 11, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Honestly, I don't think the orders derv meets the price of admission and therefore I don't use him. (This has been discussed on other threads.) The problem with Paraway generally is that it takes up all three hero slots and I don't see that you get enough bang for the buck. I'd rather combine the two paras into one by editing out Command entirely, skip the orders derv too, and then use two other heroes that can bring more to the table.

If you like stunning strike so much, then, as I said, you can certainly use it on that bar. What are the oh-so-magnificent spear skills that have to be on a para bar? Nothing that isn't outclassed by a single splinter weapon carried by a DIFFERENT hero. No splinter weap = paraway isn't really such a damage machine as people say.

Lastly, at 12 leadership, blazing finale causes adjacent burning for six seconds. That's quite a lot, and fully justifies "They're on fire." If you have a SY spammer and other party-wide shouts, there's going to be a lot of burning with blazing finale.

Tbh I think Paraway needs a complete overhaul; many of the ideas that Gigashadow was presenting in other threads seem more up-to-date and useful to me.